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Diference between DIY MSP430 LaunchPad and TouchDRO Quadrature board? - Printable Version

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Diference between DIY MSP430 LaunchPad and TouchDRO Quadrature board? - Retromachinist - 09-07-2016

Hello everyone!

i am trying to understand where the difference between the Boards that
Yuriy fabricates and the DIY solution with a  MSP430 LaunchPad, but
unfortunately i can not find any information on this...

I found a compatibility List on this page:
http://www.yuriystoys.com/p/android-dro.html#dro-controller-comparison
Is this still up to date?
But it is only comparing the DIY solutions... 
What are the advantages of the Boards you Build Yuriy?Huh

Best Regards, Retromachinist


RE: Diference between DIY MSP430 LaunchPad and TouchDRO Quadrature board? - Yuriy - 09-07-2016

(09-07-2016, 06:18 PM)Retromachinist Wrote: Hello everyone!

i am trying to understand where the difference between the Boards that
Yuriy fabricates and the DIY solution with a  MSP430 LaunchPad, but
unfortunately i can not find any information on this...

I found a compatibility List on this page:
http://www.yuriystoys.com/p/android-dro.html#dro-controller-comparison
Is this still up to date?
But it is only comparing the DIY solutions... 
What are the advantages of the Boards you Build Yuriy?Huh

Best Regards, Retromachinist

Retromachinist,
Description for each of the boards in the store states what protocols they support. The link you posted is still accurate for the DIY route. There isn't a 1:1 mapping between DIY boards and pre-made boards hardware-wise, but both sides have similar firmware capabilities.
Pre-made boards and the kit use different firmware (more optimized to the board with cleaner timing etc.).
The drawback with pre-made boards is the price. The upside is (besides the convenience) that you are getting a professionally laid out and assembled SMT board that will have better noise characteristics that you will not get with a DIY "bredboard" build.
Quadrature board uses proper double-ended quadrature line drivers for input signal, so the board can handle faster scales (and generally is more reliable than a resistor voltage divider approach). It uses the tweaked version "Quadrature" firmware.
iGaging board is similar to what you'd get with launchpad but handles noise better. The firmware is different from the "Basic" version in several ways (including support for AbsoluteDRO+ scales).
Kit is basically Launchpad + Voltage Shifter Circuit + tweaked firmware.

Let me know if this helps.
Regards
Yuriy


RE: Diference between DIY MSP430 LaunchPad and TouchDRO Quadrature board? - Retromachinist - 09-08-2016

Hi Yuriy,

thank you for the detailed clarification! 
I also found that the Quadrature Breadboard only has inputs for a TTL-Signal (Single Quadrature)
and the Quadrature Prefab Board supports input for EIA-442-A signal (Double Quadrature),
if I interpret this correct...?

I am intending to use SINO Glass scales, so this would probably be the best to make use of
the EIA-422-A Signal they provide. Here is a spec sheet of them: http://www.dro.com.tw/pdf/Scale%20manual.pdf
(Sino/Easson/Sterling use the same hardware as far as i know)

So this would also be an advantage in terms of Noise immunity if i am right. Please correct me if i am wrong!

I expect that you will not share a tutorial on how to build a DIY Breadboard with all the extras like
the quadrature line drivers etc., correct? Angel

I guess i will stick to the Prefab Board. What is the best Chanel to place an order?

Best Regards, Retromachinist


PS: I am only interested in the Quadrature Boards.


RE: Diference between DIY MSP430 LaunchPad and TouchDRO Quadrature board? - Yuriy - 09-08-2016

(09-08-2016, 07:20 AM)Retromachinist Wrote: Hi Yuriy,

thank you for the detailed clarification! 
I also found that the Quadrature Breadboard only has inputs for a TTL-Signal (Single Quadrature)
and the Quadrature Prefab Board supports input for EIA-442-A signal (Double Quadrature),
if I interpret this correct...?

I am intending to use SINO Glass scales, so this would probably be the best to make use of
the EIA-422-A Signal they provide. Here is a spec sheet of them: http://www.dro.com.tw/pdf/Scale%20manual.pdf
(Sino/Easson/Sterling use the same hardware as far as i know)

So this would also be an advantage in terms of Noise immunity if i am right. Please correct me if i am wrong!

I expect that you will not share a tutorial on how to build a DIY Breadboard with all the extras like
the quadrature line drivers etc., correct? Angel

I guess i will stick to the Prefab Board. What is the best Chanel to place an order?

Best Regards, Retromachinist


PS: I am only interested in the Quadrature Boards.

Retromachinist,
You are correct, DIY board supports only TTL signal, whereas prefab board supports both (TTL and EIA-422-A).
No, I will not share a tutorial for the prefab circuit (mostly from cost/benefit standpoint): the input chips aren't available in TH package so it will be worthless to 99% of the hobby users anyway and I don't want to make the life of commercial "copycats" easier.
You can buy the board from the store on my site (one of the links on top of the page).

Thank you
Yuriy


RE: Diference between DIY MSP430 LaunchPad and TouchDRO Quadrature board? - Retromachinist - 09-08-2016

Hi Yuriy,


Quote:You are correct, DIY board supports only TTL signal, whereas prefab board supports both (TTL and EIA-422-A).
Ok, perfect, then this is what i want! Big Grin

Quote:No, I will not share a tutorial for the prefab circuit (mostly from cost/benefit standpoint): the input chips aren't available in TH package so it will be worthless to 99% of the hobby users anyway and I don't want to make the life of commercial "copycats" easier.

Jup, i totally understand! Doing otherwise would be extremely altruistic!
I am pretty impressed that you made the knowledge for the Breadboards public anyway!
But maybe you should scramble the numbers on the chips a bit on the pictures
of the Boards! It is pretty easy to zoom the picture and decipher the chips!

Quote:You can buy the board from the store on my site (one of the links on top of the page).

Pardon me for my blindness!!! Confused
The button is so big that i oversaw it... Duh!
You will get an order from Germany shortly.

One Question:
Why don't you add the Header for Gnd. Test Reset Tx Rx 3,3V on the "No Soldering Kit"?
And why don't you supply the connectors for the single row headers?

Cheers, Retromachinist


PS: Can you give me the position of the Power in receptacle on the Quadrature Board?
Center Distance to one edge, offset to the edge and center height above board would be perfect!
Ehm, and the board thickness?
If you could provide this, i would gladly upload an approximate 3D Model of the board (Of course without any
chips!) for anyone who can not wait to start designing his enclosure!

PS PS: What do you think of the Clock Idea?


RE: Diference between DIY MSP430 LaunchPad and TouchDRO Quadrature board? - Retromachinist - 09-15-2016

Wow, i guess no answer is also an answer...?
This is awkward.

I just hope you are still on this Project.

Regards, Arne, who made a purchase.


RE: Diference between DIY MSP430 LaunchPad and TouchDRO Quadrature board? - Yuriy - 09-15-2016

(09-15-2016, 07:55 PM)Retromachinist Wrote: Wow, i guess no answer is also an answer...?
This is awkward.

I just hope you are still on this Project.

Regards, Arne, who made a purchase.

Sorry, I didn't notice your previous reply.

(09-08-2016, 03:06 PM)Retromachinist Wrote: Hi Yuriy,


Quote:You are correct, DIY board supports only TTL signal, whereas prefab board supports both (TTL and EIA-422-A).
Ok, perfect, then this is what i want! Big Grin

Quote:No, I will not share a tutorial for the prefab circuit (mostly from cost/benefit standpoint): the input chips aren't available in TH package so it will be worthless to 99% of the hobby users anyway and I don't want to make the life of commercial "copycats" easier.

Jup, i totally understand! Doing otherwise would be extremely altruistic!
I am pretty impressed that you made the knowledge for the Breadboards public anyway!
But maybe you should scramble the numbers on the chips a bit on the pictures
of the Boards! It is pretty easy to zoom the picture and decipher the chips!


Quote:You can buy the board from the store on my site (one of the links on top of the page).

Pardon me for my blindness!!! Confused
The button is so big that i oversaw it... Duh!
You will get an order from Germany shortly.

One Question:
Why don't you add the Header for Gnd. Test Reset Tx Rx 3,3V on the "No Soldering Kit"?

Because 99% of people don't need the headers and it cost money to add them. Assembly already accounts for half of the cost of the board and each through-hole part adds a fair bit to it.

And why don't you supply the connectors for the single row headers?

Because nobody ever asked for one and, again, they cost money.

Cheers, Retromachinist


PS: Can you give me the position of the Power in receptacle on the Quadrature Board?
Center Distance to one edge, offset to the edge and center height above board would be perfect!
Ehm, and the board thickness?
If you could provide this, i would gladly upload an approximate 3D Model of the board (Of course without any
chips!) for anyone who can not wait to start designing his enclosure!

I will need to measure the distance and will get back to you. The board is 0.032" thick (nominally).

PS PS: What do you think of the Clock Idea?

I haven't had a chance to play with it yet, so I don't know how feasible it would be. Probably not "impossible", but not trivial either. You can see the approximate traversal speed in the axis details screen, though.



RE: Diference between DIY MSP430 LaunchPad and TouchDRO Quadrature board? - Retromachinist - 09-18-2016

Hi Yuriy,

thanks for the Reply! It makes Sense if there is nobody who needs the Headers.

Quote:I will need to measure the distance and will get back to you. The board is 0.032" thick (nominally).

Perfect, am looking forward to it!


Quote:I haven't had a chance to play with it yet, so I don't know how feasible it would be. Probably not "impossible", but not trivial either. You can see the approximate traversal speed in the axis details screen, though.


Ehm, what do you mean by "approximate" ???

Is this reading not accurate in some way?
I was really hoping to use this feature to calibrate
my feeds, as my Mill has got a infinitely variable
feed adjustment, and a dial that i know i can not trust!!! Confused

 I have got two Enclosures i am playing around with, and
they both have enough space to fit a power supply inside.
Any reasons NOT to do this?
Interferences/Noise to be expected?
Maybe Shield the Power Supply with a Mesh?

Here are some Pictures of the current Design:

TouchDRO_Board_in_Enclosure_1591GF
[attachment=7]


TouchDRO_Board_in_Enclosure_1591U
[attachment=8]

I have included a reset button, a Rotary Encoder Input and a Probe input.

Regards, Arne


RE: Diference between DIY MSP430 LaunchPad and TouchDRO Quadrature board? - Yuriy - 09-19-2016

(09-18-2016, 02:14 PM)Retromachinist Wrote: Hi Yuriy,

thanks for the Reply! It makes Sense if there is nobody who needs the Headers.

Quote:I will need to measure the distance and will get back to you. The board is 0.032" thick (nominally).

Perfect, am looking forward to it!


Quote:I haven't had a chance to play with it yet, so I don't know how feasible it would be. Probably not "impossible", but not trivial either. You can see the approximate traversal speed in the axis details screen, though.


Ehm, what do you mean by "approximate" ???

Is this reading not accurate in some way?
I was really hoping to use this feature to calibrate
my feeds, as my Mill has got a infinitely variable
feed adjustment, and a dial that i know i can not trust!!! Confused

 I have got two Enclosures i am playing around with, and
they both have enough space to fit a power supply inside.
Any reasons NOT to do this?
Interferences/Noise to be expected?
Maybe Shield the Power Supply with a Mesh?

Here are some Pictures of the current Design:

TouchDRO_Board_in_Enclosure_1591GF



TouchDRO_Board_in_Enclosure_1591U


I have included a reset button, a Rotary Encoder Input and a Probe input.

Regards, Arne

Arne,
The enclosure looks slick.

Feed rate is calculated by calculating delta position per unit of time. The calculation is done in the app, so the timing is not 100% precise. I.e. there is a bit of error introduced by the delay between transducer reading and UART transmission, the time the data spends in the input buffers, etc., so at any point of time the output is off by a small value. In practice it might be negligible, and should be more than good enough to calibrate your feed dials to +/- a couple of percentage points.

I don't see any serious problems with having the power supply inside the enclosure. I would try to use an old-style power supply that uses a "big transformer", so the whole setup is mains isolated, and those are pretty bulky. There might be some  magnetic field leakage, but I expect the board to be able to cope with it fairly well.

Thank you
Yuriy

P.S. I still owe you the measurements. I'll try to post a sketch of the LED positions and the power jack later today (have been swamped last few days).


RE: Diference between DIY MSP430 LaunchPad and TouchDRO Quadrature board? - Retromachinist - 09-20-2016

Hi Yuriy,

thanks for the compliment! Big Grin
Any interest in the CAD files once done?

And thanks for the explanation about the Feed Rate!

Quote:should be more than good enough to calibrate your feed dials to +/- a couple of percentage points.

Assuming i let the feed travel for a reasonable amount of time, would there still be
an error? I would expect it not to be, as if the Feed Speed is constant, i.e. not
accelerating or decelerating, once the information Delay is overcome, it should
read flawless... Am i on the right track?

Quote:I don't see any serious problems with having the power supply inside the enclosure. I would try to use an old-style power supply that uses a "big transformer", so the whole setup is mains isolated, and those are pretty bulky. There might be some  magnetic field leakage, but I expect the board to be able to cope with it fairly well.

I am still looking for a Transformer type power supply, but most of the ones i have
are about 400% over-sized... Got to dig deeper in the spares boxes... Blush
Would there be any known symptoms if the mag field leakages are influencing
the Board? Or would it be easier and safer to just play it paranoid and give the
Power Supply a shielding? I just don't want to make a bad design and then
go chasing for the culprits... Or is this severely too paranoid?

Quote: P.S. I still owe you the measurements. I'll try to post a sketch of the LED positions and the power jack later today (have been swamped last few days).

Well i guess you are in a time trial against shipping! Tongue
We will see who will win! It would be cool if i had the
Enclosure done when the PCB arrives!!!


Cheers, Arne